/image%2F1027532%2F20160806%2Fob_c45e21_fb-portada)
English version.
/https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F3DxsprtX2rWn2q70HutX080gaZ8eo78DWJplzJFQBEQQAG4-C_FWdg%3Dw1200-h630-p)
Interview with Rocío Santos. Europeístas. Introduction. 2017
(Note: English is an open and evolutive language, flexible and self-made. There is not an Academy to rule its usage. I've kept the term Europeist ('Europeísta' in Spanish) instead of the very modern Europeanist which comes from European rather than from Europe. Whereas in English we find, for instance, Federalist, Federation and Federalism or Reformist, Reform and Reformism there is a gap for words to illustrate the European movement. 'Europeístas', the name of the Spain-based European NGO, is the Spanish translation for Europeists).
In Spain, all political parties incorporate the notion of Europe into their thinkings, to a great extent and in a different way. From classics which advocate for a greater political integration, or even, directly, a federal European Union, but without going into details in the latter case, to the most modern ones, populist and non-populist, led mainly by young people for whom the European being of Spain and its belonging to the EU are understood as a natural thing, as if it had always been so, with references to the EU that become into both political, social, economic or financial demands and proposals for advancing towards a greater European political integration, and a better quality Europe.
In view of that, of the History of Spain in Europe and of its relationship with the European Union, it could be concluded that Spain is a deeply Europeist country, and it is, however, Spanish Europeanism has not been reflected neither on the level of the participation of Spaniards in the European elections, nor on the intensity of the public debate on European affairs, nor, for example, on the scope of the Spanish non-governmental presence in Brussels.
The impact of the Spain's accession to the European Union on its national model of Europeanisation (United in Diversity) is becoming into paradox, that of a country, Spain, deeply Europeist, in which the European dimension has not sufficiently penetrated yet, neither in the daily life nor in what is extraordinary, after its integration in the European Union.
Spanish Civil Society is a key factor both for the democratic regeneration of Spain and for the assimilation of the values that the EU represents. The paradox arises as a result of the weakness of Spanish Civil Society, a Civil Society still incipient but overflowed, and sometimes even stuck, by the presence at its natural areas of action of public administration bodies, political parties and related entities.
In the terminology of the European Union, Civil Society is considered as a set of organizations and structures not linked either to the Administration or to political parties, non-profit and non-violent, through which citizens organize among themselves to pursue shared objectives, whether political, cultural, social or economic. Civil Society organizations can develop their activity at local, regional, national or international level, they can be urban and rural and be established in a formal or informal way.
Rocío Santos, the protagonist of the interview that you can read below, belongs to the vanguard of the Spaniards who holding a very high level of professional and human training have decided to take their European fate in their own hands, in the European Union. Rocío has done so through her participation in Europeístas, a Spanish non-profit NGO of which she is a founder member.
Europeístas has among its aims the defence of a strong, united and egalitarian Europe that ensures the welfare state for its citizens; the commitment to a rational environmentalism which promotes sustainability and the defence of the environment not only as a necessity but also as an opportunity; the promotion of a European socio-liberal economic model as an alternative to the current one (liberal-conservative); the protection of Fundamental Rights and the secular state in line with the recovery of the European humanist tradition; the claim of the principles that have made Europe the cradle of modern democracy and the defence of an open family model as an elementary European social pillar.
Europeístas, chaired by José F. Sigüenza, was presented last May at the Headquarters of the European Institutions at the Paseo de la Castellana in Madrid. Isabel Mateo, Head of Education at the Office of the European Parliament in Spain, welcomed it. Carlos Navarro (director and presenter of Europa Abierta in RTVE, the Spanish national public television), Gerardo Cuerva, Maite Pagazaurtundúa, Pablo Casado, José María Carrascal, Delia Rodríguez and Jesús de Andrés participated in the event (called "Imagine Europe").
Rocío Santos. Europeístas.
(Interview)
- Rocío, please could you tell our readers who Rocío Santos is?
Born in Madrid, I have developed much of my professional career in different parts of Europe. As a daughter of a humble and large family who always instilled in me a great interest in education, I combined temporary jobs with the studies of my degree in Telecommunications Engineering at the Polytechnic University of Madrid, completing my studies in England, Wales, the United States and Sweden, thanks to different grants. Thus, I left Spain at the age of 24, although I continued to participate in its political and social life. In fact, I began to be interested in politics and activism, seeing that there were fewer and fewer opportunities, that in 2003, so early, I had had to emigrate and that the situation didn't seem getting better. I am currently fully devoted to the project of Europeístas, especially in Communication and Social Networks.
- The Commission has recently launched the White Paper on the future of Europe with its five options: 1. Carrying on; 2. Nothing but the Single Market; 3. Those who want more do more; 4. Doing less more efficiently; 5. Doing much more together. Which one do you choose? Why? Would you add any other?
Clearly I choose the 5th scenario, the so-called federal dream. It means the less inhibited option, that which leaves behind national fears and reticences, and refuses to fight for competences or sovereignty. I believe it is the intrinsic goal of the European Union's project. I understand that some people see it as utopian; I am aware of the difficulties and I would not rule out accepting compromises on the way to achieving it, as option 3, which actually happens in some respects like the euro, but always without losing sight of the objective because the European Union is a long-term project, let's not forget it. In today's society of immediate consumption and satisfaction, we sometimes forget that large projects require big plans.
- Europeístas, what does it mean for you?, how did you join? Your role if you take a seat.
Europeístas is a breath of fresh air in the face of the increasingly acute polarization of society. It is not only a project on Europe, but mainly on the values on which its founding fathers devised it. It aims to approach postures where it is possible to correct errors (not deny them) and, above all, to construct. I was incorporated from the beginning, I am a founding member, and I am currently in the provisional direction that will be until the next assembly in September. I dedicate more than anything, along with other volunteers, to social networks and online communication, although taking advantage of my geographical situation, I also participate in international relations.
- In relation to the future of Europe, being a member of Europeístas: What is the goal model of Europeístas for Europe?
Europeístas believe in an integrated, federal European model, where there is no room to blame each other for decisions taken at different levels, to put it bluntly. We believe that we must move towards a united Europe in which its participants give up competences and share sovereignty as the only way to guarantee our security, coexistence and progress. Now, of course, such a transfer can not be demanded without responsible policies that support it and involve European citizens, which may have been one of the mistakes of the current EU.
The aim is therefore to restore the confidence of European citizens through policies at the global level and the corresponding reforms at national level that promote strong, stable and democratic European institutions. And for this we need to act, from associations, political organizations, Civil Society, media, personalities and all the voices who share this vision.
- The enlargement of the EU is one of the most debated European issues for several reasons. In different fora, it is possible to find supporters that the EU should extend from Bergen to Istanbul and from Lisbon to Vladivostok but also in favour of staying as it is (EU27) taking into account, for example, that candidate countries such as Turkey have suffered a substantial reduction in their chances of becoming Member States. In the case of Turkey, after the coup attempt and general deterioration of Fundamental Rights in that country. Russia, which is not a candidate country, raises many questions about the democratic quality of its regime, the protection of Fundamental Rights and even its Asian dimension. Do you think that the European Union should have among its Member States all the countries of the European continent?
It is true that when speaking about the European Union we often refer to Europe. And wouldn't it be a dream that all the countries of the continent join the project of the Union? Especially because this would mean that they meet democratic standards and that we are able to reach agreements. One thing is clear, the more we are, the more influential we can be in this increasingly global world.
- What do you think about the rise of populism, extremism, radicalism, etc., in Europe?
Being honest, it is normal that they have arisen. When things don't go as well as they could in a country (or region), the easy reasoning is to blame the incoming immigrant, the neighbouring country that oppresses you or even the politician who sits in Brussels (or Madrid). If we add that citizens do not find adult and excellent answers from governments, we get the perfect breeding ground for populist groups to spread their messages with overwhelming success, as we have seen that it has happened and continues to happen.
I believe, therefore, that it is a shared responsibility: of those who occupy institutions because they have not been able to respond to the demands of the citizens and have played with fire on many occasions for convenience, for example, evading responsibility and dodging the issue when faced with cuts and measures that were their competences and, on the other hand, citizens, who we can't expect that all information always reaches a virtual "inbox", but it is our duty to be well-informed about the complex reality that surrounds us; we can't, at this stage and with the level of information accessible to the average citizen, believe in magical solutions or simplify the problems in a way that, instead of doing a serious and constructive analysis, only end up increasingly polarizing society. If we look, the triumph of modern demagogy lies not only in the power and influence of the demagogue on its followers, but also on its detractors, who wait anxiously for the next fault, absurdity or incongruity to be indignant, to share it with other detractors and to give each other the reason. This polarization we are witnessing annuls the logical capacity of the individual and divides society into two herds which, even with opposing positions, are equally manipulated by the populist.
We must react to all this, it is one of the reasons why Europeístas exists, which arose as we saw the growth of these populist and extremist movements in Europe, Trump's rise in the US, the imperialist strivings of the Russian neighbour and other threats; because we Europeans can not risk the disappearance of the longest period of peace in history, of all acquired freedoms and rights. We, the citizens of the European Union, must respond by abandoning dogmatism, with audacity and intelligence, learning from mistakes and re-launching the integration project with more force than ever.
- Your review of Brexit. How do you think the ongoing negotiations with the UK should be conducted? The United States has usually counted on the United Kingdom as an unconditional ally although there was a certain cooling in that relationship during the term of Barack Obama. In the current context, what future do you think awaits the TTIP and the relationship of the European Union with the United States of America?
I think Brexit is very bad news for all the parties involved, but it is still an additional consequence of this that I commented you in the previous answer. If we keep on feeding the idea of blaming others for everything, we will always want to separate ourselves to the minimum unit of sovereignty, who knows what it is, the atom of sovereignty, as I read recently a journalist I admire. If I am honest, in confidence, I am one of those who keeps the hope that Brexit doesn't materialize, it is a subject that worries me a lot and that I try to follow closely, especially when friends from the UK tell me the situation they are living.
On TTIP and any trade agreement of the European Union, I believe that in principle they are positive provided that the quality standards of the European Union are respected. That is why they are negotiations and their evolution must be followed. I know that these agreements cause a lot of controversy, because it seems that the US, to put the example you mentioned, came and imposed its conditions, but it is not, there is a huge work behind and the documents resulting from these negotiations are publicly accessible. There is no other way to reach agreements that dialogue, we can't be closed to the world because, although as a European Union we are stronger globally than as individual countries, we are still small compared to other emerging powers. Anyway, in the case of TTIP, whether or not an agreement is reached, I think it has become clear that the relations of Europe and the United States with the arrival of Donald Trump are not what they used to be, we must take the reins of our destiny. This worries me especially in the subject of defence.
- Europeístas and Environment. What do you think about the Paris Agreement to combat Climate Change?
As you know, environmental sustainability is one of the three basic pillars of Europeístas. The Paris Agreement has marked a turning point in the fight against Climate Change, not only in the wake of the Agreement's provisions themselves, but also because of its scope and the fact of being ratified by almost 200 countries in a struggle that is actually global. The recent withdrawal of the US from the Agreement is bad news. But I believe this also serves us, the rest, as I already told you before, to realize that it is time for the European Union to take a step forward and assume the leadership in many areas, including the fight against Climate Change. In fact, I believe that this step taken by the Trump's administration has been a big mistake, not only at environmental level, but also at strategic one for his country.
- Spanish Civil Society and the European Union ...
A very interesting subject, I'm glad you mention it. Just last June, the Council issued a press release on the EU's commitment to a qualified and solid Civil Society. I believe that it is essential to be clear on this matter and to oppose unjustified restrictions of freedom of association, expression and peaceful assembly that may hamper the activity of Civil Society organizations.
It seems that the EU is increasing its efforts to achieve greater participation by Civil Society in European politics for some time now, but I think that there is still a long way to go since this is fundamental if we want the European institutions no longer to be seen as an abstract and distant entity which does not influence our day to day. In Spain, and in other EU countries, not even the European elections themselves, for example, have a high turnout.
- Spain and the European Union. We usually talk about the Atlantic and Mediterranean dimensions of our country. There is even talk of favouring the coordination of a Southern alliance within the EU. What happens to the Central European dimension of Spain?
Spain has many dimensions and certainly I would not feel comfortable limiting ourselves to one of them. The Central European dimension of Spain also exists, as you point out well, we are increasingly more Spaniards living in central and northern Europe, creating social, cultural and even political ties. In favour of coordinating a Southern bloc, I am no expert on foreign policy and I understand that for some issues some countries may have more in common with others, but in principle I don't think it is a good idea to break up the EU into blocs, even less if criteria are geographic or based on an assumed dominant dimension.
- You've travelled a lot, what about the EU from some other national perspective you'd like to mention?
I have travelled, I don't know if so much, and I have lived in the Netherlands and various cities in Germany. Curiously in Spain we have always been very pro-Europeans compared to other countries in the Union. Perhaps because Spain has been formed as a mixture of cultures, bridge between continents and exporter of talent, because we are accustomed to migrating, not only to other countries, but to different points in Spain, and also to welcome those who migrate. Since we became EU members, we have never experienced any significant right-wing populisms such as in the Netherlands, with Wilders, or in Germany, with AfD. Germany, on the other hand, is well aware of its past history and doesn't hesitate when it comes to taking legal action so that the most tragic chapters in its history are not repeated.
The problem is that the extremist parties which have emerged today are, let us say, a new generation of populists with facile opinions and renewed strategies who manage to reach the population and jeopardize the integration process. We can't expect their arguments to be self-explanatory, it is not an "enemy" to underestimate, it is necessary to act, to be smart, tenacious and serious. I retain a reflection by J. F. Sigüenza, president of Europeístas, in one of his articles: Spain is a great country, Spaniards are tremendously valid, and Spain is a perfect place to claim Europe.
- Your past and present political activity. Do you plan to develop your political career in UPYD?
First of all, I do not intend to develop any political career. My involvement in politics is what you see as a member of society. My career, which is technical, is already developed and I am happy with it. On UPYD, it is true that I came close to them to put my shoulder on the wheel when I thought that they needed it more, however, I never held any organic or political positions, but I was a volunteer, like so many activists who spend their time and resources to help improve society. Currently, both myself and the project in which I am immersed, we are independent of any political formation. In Europeístas there are people from different political parties and most of them are not affiliated with any, as my case is.
- You live in Berlin. Some of the opponents of the EU integration process argue that this is a German strategy to dominate the continent, some even identify it with Nazi nostalgia. What do you think about this?
I have heard that prejudices are healed by travelling and I can not agree more. The EU for the Germans is not that field of roses which sometimes people try to make us see. In Germany it is not normal to be the owner of the dwelling you live in, but a tenant, for example, whereas in Spain many people present the sale of their second residence's house by necessity, as a drama. I've never seen so much consumerism as in Spain, where even stones have an iPhone. On the other hand, there is no country as conscious of its past as Germany; I assure you that nostalgias of Nazism remain in extremists. In fact, they keep alive memories of their past in a much healthier way than in Spain, because they do not use it daily as a missile in 2017 politics. I do not know what the arguments of those detractors you say are, but I do not think they stand up to scrutiny.
The problem may be that national interests carry too much weight in European politics, I agree with that. It is the consequence of having a European Council made up by the leaders of each country. Leaders who, by definition, have been elected to govern their respective nations. I believe that the current structure or the power of the Council should be matters to be addressed in the relaunch of the European project.
- Rocío, you have turned Europe into one of the axes of your life. How has the assimilation been? What your challenges are?
Europe is part of my life, so the assimilation has been easy. I enjoy diversity, I think this is not cause for division but pride for those who can enjoy it as part of our life, our culture and origin. I feel at home from Asturias to Cadiz and I like to steep myself in everything that each village has to offer. Same in Europe, although there we don't have the luck to share a common language, but everything will be done. And if not, we learn.
My main objective is to serve as a catalyst for this much needed European movement. I always thought it's a pity that there are very valid people who don't have the opportunity to contribute with their work and value to the good of society while there is a lack of these people and their work in different political and social spheres. My biggest challenge is to wake up the first ones and give them the impetus and the necessary energy so that together we can improve things where required. The European Union needs people capable of relaunching and completing the integration project, and the good news is that there are a lot of them, we just need to stop zascas (sharp, scathing answers) and indignation, and get down to work now.
- Do you want to add anything?
Just to thank you for this interview, which I enjoyed a lot by responding.
- A million thanks, Rocío (again) ...
To you. A pleasure.
Europeístas. Logo.